BookTube [Video] – Jason Reynolds
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By YouTube Originals
In this special episode of BookTube, our community of close readers asks award-winning author Jason Reynolds about his new book, Stamped: Racism, Anti-Racism, and You. Co-author Dr. Ibram X. Kendi chimes in to help explain the book’s origins.
Jason Reynolds: Honesty, Joy, and Anti-Racism
Transcript provided by YouTube:
00:04
A burning question that I have
00:05
is did you always want to be an author?
00:08
Did I always want to be an author?
00:10
No, I wanted to be Michael Jordan.
00:13
In my community, we knew teachers, we knew government workers,
00:16
we knew hustlers, we knew athletes,
00:18
but we didn’t know any authors.
00:20
We didn’t spend time in the library.
00:21
When you grew up where I grew up, being an author
00:23
isn’t a thing that we even knew that we could be.
00:25
Today, I’m super excited
00:27
to be talking about Jason Reynolds’ book “Stamped,”
00:30
which is a remix of “Stamped From The Beginning” by Dr. Ibram X. Kendi.
00:33
Both Reynolds and Kendi are incredible voices,
00:37
and I feel so deeply privileged
00:40
to be in conversation with them today.
00:42
It felt like I was having a really deep, intimate conversation
00:46
about topics that I’m really, really fascinated by.
00:48
“Stamped” does a fantastic job in being an approachable way
00:52
to view the history of anti-black racism.
00:57
It is not only incredibly entertaining,
00:59
but it’s our responsibility.
01:32
What’s happening, everybody? This is Jason Reynolds,
01:35
the author of “Stamped: Racism, Antiracism, And You.”
01:39
This is a book meant to give some context
01:42
about the racial dynamic of this country as it stands today,
01:46
and the history of it dating all the way back to the 1400s.
01:49
We call it a remix of Dr. Ibram X. Kendi’s masterpiece
01:54
“Stamped From The Beginning,” which outlines the history
01:57
of racist ideas in America.
02:00
I’m so excited to be a part
02:01
of this special episode of “BookTube.”
02:04
Here I am in my office in Washington, D.C.
02:08
where I do all my work for the most part.
02:10
And I’m looking forward to talking to y’all about “Stamped.”
02:13
– Let’s get it. – What up, y’all?
02:15
My name is Jesse, and I am from the YouTube channel
02:18
and the Instagram Bowties & Books.
02:22
A’ight. Bowties & Books.
02:24
I have been a part of the bookish community
02:27
for the last two years as of August.
02:30
I focus a lot on reading books that center BIPOC
02:36
Regarding “Stamped,” I have a lot to say about this book.
02:40
I have thoughts, y’all. I have thoughts.
02:44
Personally, I absolutely loved the aggressive ways
02:47
in which different power structures are broken down
02:50
while still having a casual and highly readable element.
02:54
The book is based off of Dr. Kendi’s “Stamped,”
02:57
which is a best-selling and highly technical book.
03:03
Jason, why was it important
03:06
for you to use accessible language
03:08
while you were writing this book?
03:09
First of all, this is a good question.
03:11
My job is to level the playing field.
03:13
My job is to make sure that language can be water.
03:16
And what I mean by that is water affects
03:18
everybody’s body the same.
03:20
Every human being has to have water, right?
03:23
And I think my job is to take all that research he did in his book
03:27
and translate it into something
03:30
cool and interesting for a 12-year-old
03:35
It doesn’t matter how old you are.
03:37
You can get something from any narrative.
03:38
Human beings invest in human beings
03:40
despite whatever age that human being is.
03:42
My 75-year-old mother has read it
03:44
and has a better understanding of her own life,
03:47
and she actually lived through many of the things
03:49
that most of us will never actually experience.
03:52
I personally found myself
03:54
just frantically nodding my head in agreement
03:57
during “Stamped’s” discussion of how throughout history
04:00
black people have literally always been expected to adhere
04:05
to the rules of white conversation,
04:07
especially when navigating discussions about race.
04:10
– Yeah. – For example,
04:12
black people are literally never allowed to get angry
04:15
when we are having conversations about race.
04:17
We are expected to be cool, calm, and collected
04:20
at every point during the discussion
04:23
or else our voices, our anger, our pain isn’t seen as valid.
04:27
– Talk about it. – It’s also a way for white people
04:29
to control the conversation and to give themselves…
04:33
– Jesse. – …to stop listening to us
04:36
when they no longer feel comfortable.
04:38
Yo, real quick, I make it a habit to not tell
04:40
no lies to nobody, including white people, right?
04:44
I’m not a person who couches these conversations
04:46
just because I’m in a room with white folks. No!
04:48
If I love you like I claim to love you,
04:50
despite how you feel about me,
04:52
then I gotta respect you enough to tell you the truth,
04:54
even if that truth makes you uncomfortable.
04:56
You ain’t gotta like it, you ain’t gotta like me.
04:59
But I’m gonna tell you the truth regardless
05:00
because life is too short for me to hold it in.
05:03
So, Jason, what does resistance mean
05:06
and what does resistance look like to you personally?
05:09
It has to be internal wrestling with complicated ideas
05:12
that we think we know the answer to.
05:14
I have to make sure that I’m checking myself constantly.
05:17
As much as I’m writing about it,
05:18
I’m trying to deconstruct it,
05:20
and I’m trying to work on my own stuff internally, right?
05:22
I’m not off the hook. I’m not always an antiracist.
05:24
I try to be every day. I try to push toward it.
05:26
And I think my resistance has everything to do with making sure
05:29
that I’m holding myself accountable
05:31
more than holding all the people around me accountable, right?
05:34
I also think that as there is so much injustice,
05:38
there also is so much rich and vibrant history of blackness.
05:43
– No doubt. – So another question that I have to you
05:46
that ties directly to this theme of joy
05:49
is how do you as a black man
05:51
preserve and protect your black joy
05:54
– on an everyday level? – Ooh-whee!
05:58
Whew, you know how the books say breathe?
06:00
I think this is a moment where I have to do so.
06:14
Been black. Gonna be black.
06:15
And the funny thing about being a black person
06:18
is that when people talk about blackness or black people,
06:21
they typically talk about the struggle, right?
06:24
The truth is that being black is joyous.
06:27
It is a joyous thing to be a black person.
06:29
It’s a part of who I am every day.
06:31
And so I’ve always been okay with who I am and what I am.
06:35
I was raised to believe that I never need to feel shame
06:43
My mom is probably the greatest human
06:46
that I’ve known thus far in my life.
06:48
She raised us in a super progressive,
06:50
really interesting and open household.
06:52
We were raised in a house where we could talk back if we wanted to.
06:57
We could sort of debate with our mother in a way
06:59
that most– most parents just don’t allow for.
07:01
But my mom wanted to teach us that we had a voice and we had feelings
07:04
and those feelings are valid, even if she doesn’t change her mind.
07:07
We also were raised to make sure that in the midst of that expression,
07:10
that we expressed ourselves with confidence.
07:12
So I couldn’t disagree quietly.
07:14
I couldn’t disagree and sort of mutter it or murmur it, right?
07:17
I sort of had to roll my shoulders back, stick my chest out,
07:20
and say the way I felt as if I meant it.
07:23
And if I did, she’d take it seriously.
07:26
And these are all sort of the things that I use to this day
07:28
when it comes to making my work, so shout out to moms.
07:31
Hi, I’m Danielle Bainbridge.
07:33
So I’m a historian, and my YouTube channel Origin of Everything
07:36
is about breaking things down from the beginning.
07:39
So this book was personally a really great read for me
07:42
because it took a complex and difficult subject, racism,
07:45
and made it interesting and entertaining
07:47
without sacrificing the hard facts.
07:49
Let me just take a second real quick and just say
07:52
she seems like my kind of person.
07:54
Seems like she knows what she’s talking about.
07:56
One of these days, Danielle, you and I, we’ll meet.
07:58
I think it’s important to mention that you were named
08:00
the new Library of Congress’ National Ambassador
08:03
for Young People’s Literature.
08:04
Congratulations on that high honor.
08:06
– Thank you, Danielle. – I’m curious to hear
08:08
what that experience has been like for you?
08:10
It was an absolute honor.
08:12
I was appointed by the Library of Congress
08:15
the National Ambassador for Young People’s Literature for 2020 and 2021.
08:19
I have a role and a job to do,
08:21
and I take it really, really seriously.
08:25
I make sure that I put as much time as possible into young people.
08:30
And I realize that I have so much to say to our young people,
08:32
especially those who grew up like me.
08:34
If you want to know where the cure is,
08:36
if you want the antidote to hopelessness,
08:38
spend a little more time with young folks.
08:40
I’ve read Dr. Kendi’s original book “Stamped From The Beginning.”
08:43
– Shout out to Dr. Kendi. – And I can only imagine how hard it must have been
08:46
to take Dr. Kendi’s incredible book,
08:48
– which is really dense– – Wait. Real quick.
08:50
She said, like, Dr. Kendi’s book, which is really dense.
08:54
I just want to say, yes, it is.
08:58
I imagine it must have been intimidating to be tasked with such a big job.
09:01
Where did the idea for the remix come from,
09:03
and how did Jason Reynolds come into the picture?
09:05
First of all, it’s important to know that he asked me to do this
09:09
right after he won the National Book Award for that book,
09:13
I said absolutely not, you know?
09:17
I wanted a YA version of “Stamped From The Beginning” because people asked.
09:22
People would say, you know, this book needs to be
09:25
in every, sort of, high school.
09:27
It needs to be in every middle school.
09:29
We should not be learning this history
09:32
only when we become adults.
09:34
And so that galvanized me and encouraged me
09:39
So, of course, when I asked Jason,
09:43
he said no over, you know, and over again.
09:48
My “no,” it came from a place of respect.
09:51
And secondly, in came from a place of insecurity.
09:55
You know, I got through college barely, right?
09:58
I wasn’t some– some genius kid.
10:01
That wasn’t my– my thing.
10:02
And so I was just concerned that I would say yes
10:06
and then be in over my head.
10:08
– But he kept asking. – I persisted, you know?
10:11
Not necessarily because I wanted to get a win,
10:15
but just because at the end of the day,
10:17
I wanted young people to read this book.
10:20
I mean, he kept asking. Talk about a persistent person.
10:23
And eventually, he convinced me that it was bigger than the both of us.
10:27
And he convinced me, you know, that perhaps he could see something in me
10:30
that I couldn’t see in myself at the time.
10:32
Ibram: Jason has just a unbelievable skill and talent,
10:36
and that’s why I knew that if he was to write “Stamped,”
10:40
that it would turn out into precisely what it turned out to be,
10:46
In reading and listening to “Stamped,”
10:48
your voice comes through so clearly.
10:50
There’s a lyricism to your handling of language
10:53
and a real mastery and artistry with words.
10:56
Can you talk about your philosophy behind writing?
10:59
There’s this quote, an Alfred Hitchcock quote.
11:01
He says something along the lines of,
11:04
“The face does not exist until I put light on it.”
11:07
Language is light, right? Language is the light
11:10
in which he speaks of for me in my world, right?
11:13
Young children who are growing up in the Bronx
11:17
or in D.C. or in Chicago,
11:19
though we know those lives are real,
11:20
those lives could easily be dismissed
11:23
if someone doesn’t put language to it.
11:25
I only have 26 le– there’s a limited,
11:28
a finite amount of resource here.
11:30
I have 26 letters to work with that I get to arrange
11:33
in all kinds of different combinations
11:35
to figure out how to cast spell on the person that reads them.
11:38
– What an amazing thing. – Hi, everyone. I’m Joanna.
11:42
Before I start talking about what I loved about the book,
11:44
I should probably set the table a little bit.
11:47
I am a recent American. I’m originally from Venezuela.
11:51
And I gotta tell you something. From the outside looking in,
11:54
America has excellent branding.
11:57
Land of the free, home of the brave.
12:00
It’s not– but then you get here and it’s like,
12:01
“Wait a minute. Like, is it?”
12:03
One of the ways America sold racism to us
12:06
was through pop culture and art.
12:08
And a lot of us were too busy watching the movie to even notice.
12:11
There’s some obvious examples the book brings up,
12:13
like “Birth of a Nation,” America’s first Hollywood hit.
12:17
Now this movie wasn’t just about the KKK,
12:20
– it celebrated the KKK. – Yeah.
12:23
So, let’s wrap our head around that.
12:25
The movie that put Hollywood on the map
12:29
made the KKK look like some cross-burning Avengers.
12:32
So, “Birth of a Nation,” I was kind of expecting that.
12:36
But then the book goes like, “Hey, guess what?
12:40
So, was I shocked to learn that my favorite Disney movie
12:43
was based on a racist book?
12:45
I mean, not really anymore.
12:47
I feel like this happens to me all the time.
12:48
Someone will say, “Hey. ‘Dixie Chicks.’
12:50
That name is problematic.”
12:52
And I’ll be like, “Are you sure about that?”
12:53
Do a quick Google search.
12:55
Immediately, first result, yes, it’s completely racist.
12:58
And I know this is an obvious one, but Aunt Jemima.
13:00
It’s obvious now, but for the longest time,
13:03
I didn’t realize it was reiterating a racial stereotype.
13:06
And the model who Aunt Jemima is based on,
13:12
So, Jason, did you see these things as inherently problematic growing up?
13:16
So what’s interesting is when I was a kid, no.
13:20
I did not know these things were problematic.
13:22
My mother collected memorabilia that was actually racist.
13:28
And there are a lot of black people who do this,
13:29
who collect Pickaninny dolls and Sambo dolls
13:34
And my mom was a person who collected these kinds
13:36
of antiques and had them in our house.
13:38
So when I was a kid, of course I didn’t know
13:39
that anything was wrong with these images
13:42
until I got a little older.
13:44
And that proves the point that I think a lot of us–
13:46
a lot of racism as it– as it sort of exists
13:49
in the present time is hiding in plain sight.
13:51
One of the most actionable takeaways from this book for me
13:55
was that it isn’t enough to be aware of racism
13:58
or be against the concept of racism,
14:00
but to be actively antiracist.
14:21
that’s an answer that I– that I will not–
14:26
There is not such thing as becoming an antiracist.
14:31
Racism continues to change and shift.
14:32
It shows itself in different ways,
14:34
and so we will have to continue to change and shift and evolve
14:37
so that we can continue to combat it in different ways.
14:40
This is the rest of our lives, journeying through
14:43
trying to figure out how to self-correct
14:45
to the point that it becomes autocorrect.
14:47
And if we can all do that,
14:49
then perhaps we can make the world
14:53
Hey, y’all. How are you doing?
14:55
I am so excited to talk about “Stamped: Racism, Antiracism, And You.”
15:00
My name is Kim. I run a multiplatform digital community
15:03
for black women called For Harriet.
15:07
because I wanted to have intergenerational conversations
15:09
about the experiences of black womanhood
15:12
that don’t really get talked about in the mainstream.
15:14
– Shout out to Kim. – There were so many great moments in “Stamped”
15:17
that I gravitated to, but I loved chapter 15 of this book
15:21
called “Battle Of The Black Brains.”
15:23
– Yeah, yeah. – Which is about W.E.B. Du Bois,
15:26
who was a fantastic scholar,
15:28
a civil rights activist from way back,
15:31
and Booker T. Washington,
15:33
who was an activist, a businessman,
15:35
a political leader, and how they were two giants of black history,
15:40
but also deeply imperfect.
15:42
Actually, kind of problematic.
15:45
It is so, so important for us to really reckon with the fact
15:49
that our leaders, the people that we view as icons,
15:52
– had some issues. – Mm.
16:03
…focus on lower pursuits such as tending the fields,
16:14
Jason, I actually wanted to ask you how do you reconcile
16:17
the many great things that so many of our heroes did
16:20
with the problematic aspects of their past?
16:23
The fact that they did a lot of stuff that is frankly shady and kind of gross?
16:27
– What do we do with that? – Oof. Tough, tough, tough question.
16:31
I try to contextualize what it is that they did.
16:34
So many of them make decisions based on where they are in history
16:38
and the opposing forces that are there.
16:41
I mean, I think about my own mom, right? My family.
16:44
The truth of the matter is is that just because a person is a hero
16:48
does not make them any less a human.
16:51
My name is John Fish, and I’m a 21-year-old
16:53
Harvard student from Ontario, Canada.
16:55
In Canada, I didn’t really learn a whole lot
17:00
And being a white kid in a white family,
17:02
my only real perception of anti-black racism
17:05
– was through media. – Hmm.
17:07
I remember being a 13-year-old watching the George Zimmerman trial.
17:09
And I remember thinking that it was so unfair,
17:12
but I couldn’t place it in the correct
17:15
historical and social context.
17:17
Jason, I think that “Stamped” does a really good job
17:20
expressing this history of anti-black racism as an evolution
17:24
and telling the story as it happened.
17:27
I’d be really curious to hear how you think the media
17:30
and how you think that education, schools,
17:33
could do a better job at telling this history.
17:35
Mm! In America, we celebrate black people in February.
17:38
You ask the average young American who they know,
17:41
and they’ll tell you Martin, they’ll tell you Rosa Parks,
17:43
they’ll tell you Harriet Tubman.
17:44
If you’re lucky, you might get a Nelson Mandela in there.
17:46
There’s, like, the Super Friends of black history
17:49
that we sort of pluck from as often as possible.
17:52
And they sort of serve as the avatars
17:54
for the rest of our lives and our struggle,
17:55
when the reality of the matter is
17:57
they just barely scratch the surface.
17:58
I mean, there are textbooks in America
18:01
where they will not call enslaved Africans “enslaved Africans.”
18:05
Instead they call them “migrant workers.”
18:07
John Fish, you’re a smart guy.
18:09
You know that that is not the same.
18:11
There are all these sort of conversations around like,
18:12
“Oh, well, we don’t have enough time to go into detail.
18:15
We don’t have enough time to teach an intensive lesson
18:18
on the history of black people in America.”
18:21
When what they’re really saying is,
18:22
“We don’t have the interest in teaching the truth
18:24
about American history.”
18:26
Black people happen to be
18:27
the backbone of American history.
18:29
And so the fact that we get left out of it
18:31
makes it even more egregious.
18:33
The way they could do it better
19:18
Usually when I give these interviews, I talk about my mom.
19:21
And my father often sees these things and he’s like, “You never talk about me.”
19:24
And so I want to be sure to say my father’s a good dude.

This post was previously published on YouTube.
Photo credit: Screenshot from video